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Wamu WKN 893906 News !

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Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Maurice87
Maurice87:

Komische Frage ?

 
08.12.11 10:48

Tach zusammen,

bin eigentlich nur stiller mitleser, aber jeden tag hier im forum unterwegs. bin über die jahre hier irgendwie mit euch zusammen gewachsen und merke,dass hier einige dabei sind, die sich sehr gut in finanz, lebens usw... auskennen. weiß nicht genau wie ich das beschreiben soll, weise und haben eingies an lebenserfahrung. mir geht es darum, dass ich sozusagen einen mentor suche. habe mir jetzt einfach mal die freiheit und mut genommen hier einfach mal nachzufragen. vielleicht meldet sich ja jemand über bm, mit dem man sich weiter auseinander setzen kann.

in der ruhe liegt die kraft, mache mir für heute kein kopfkino mehr. einfach abwarten.......bis zum schluss

lg maurice


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Wamu WKN 893906 News ! zion666
zion666:

@pyramid

9
08.12.11 10:56
Hallo!

Wenn ich mir die von dir eingestellte Tabelle und die Zahlen so anschaue, dann würde ich sagen, das man mit der Beschlagnahmung der WMB einen "Gewinn" gemacht hat. Ist das nicht etwas untypisch für eine Insolvenz?

Schönen Gruß
Zion
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! herrscher2
herrscher2:

Kann mir bitte

 
08.12.11 10:57

 

jemand sagen, wie ich diesen verdammten "Knallgasthread" finde ???

Danke im Voraus....

Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Rabbit59
Rabbit59:

Herrscher 2

 
08.12.11 11:02
Knallgas-Verschwörungstheorien, aber gut zu lesen und manches auch glaubhaft
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! SUSMANFAN
SUSMANFAN:

@pyramid

39
08.12.11 11:09
Hallo pyramid,auch von meiner Seite "schönen Dank" für diesen tollen Fund.Da wird einfach mal "eine überaus Solvente WMB-bank" nicht eingerechnet.Das geschah natürlich nicht vorsetzlich,sondern "aus versehen"!!Wenn Mann bedenkt,das eine Beschlagnahmung in einem solchen Fall "niemals "hätte erfolgen dürfen,dann frage ich mich schon,was wir an einem "Insolvenzgericht" verloren haben??Ich weiss schon,das alles seinen gewohnten Gang geht,aber früher oder später müssten Wir "wo anderst"hin,und zwar an ein "STRAFGERICHT"!!Für mich steht folgendes fest:ganz klar,bewusste Täuschung oder nicht,Fehler oder vorsetzlich,aber hier ist ein riesengrosser Fehler gemacht  worden!! Da wird eine "solvente"Bank heruntergerechnet,um später "übernommen"zu werden.Wie kann Mann eine"Traditionsbank" über Nacht ,ohne eingehende,gründlichste Prüfung übernehmen,und billigst verschleudern???Ohne Ec,und ohne "Susman"hätten sie es auch fast geschafft,aber nur fast!!!FDIC hat grobe Fehler begangen,und wird dafür bezahlen müssen,da bin Ich mir fast schon sicher.Wie sagt Mann so schön:Unwissenheit schützt vor Strafe nicht!!Das gilt auch für die ganz Grossen wie FDIC/JPM!!Fast Jeden Tag/Woche kommen neue Beweise an das Tageslicht,und bin sehr zuversichtlich,das "Wir" doch nicht "aufs falsche Pferd gesetzt haben"Nochmals danke Pyramid!!Nur meine bescheidene Meinung   Keine kaufs oder Verkaufsaufforderung       MfG.Susmanfan
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! lander
lander:

im I HUb gefunden

4
08.12.11 11:17
www.zerohedge.com/news/...uences-eurozone-canadian-banks-jeffe

Why The UK Trail Of The MF Global Collapse May Have "Apocalyptic" Consequences For The Eurozone, Canadian Banks, Jefferies And Everyone Else
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 12/07/2011 23:06 -0500

AIG American International Group Bond CDO CDS Central Banks Collateralized Debt Obligations Counterparties Credit Suisse default European Central Bank Eurozone Fail Federal Reserve Financial Regulation Goldman Sachs goldman sachs Greece Ian Cumming International Monetary Fund Ireland Italy Joe Cassano Lehman Lehman Brothers Leucadia MF Global Morgan Stanley Mortgage Backed Securities Portugal Repo Market Reuters Sean Egan Shadow Banking Shadow Chancellor Sovereign Debt Sovereign Default Structured Finance United Kingdom Wells Fargo


In an oddly prescient turn of events, yesterday we penned a post titled "Has The Imploding European Shadow Banking System Forced The Bundesbank To Prepare For Plan B?" in which we explained how it was not only the repo market, but the far broader and massively unregulated shadow banking system in Europe that was becoming thoroughly unhinged, and was manifesting itself in a complete "lock up in interbank liquidity" and which, we speculated, is pressuring the Bundesbank, which is well aware of what is going on behind the scenes, to slowly back away from what will soon be an "apocalyptic" event (not our words... read on). Why was this prescient? Because today, Reuters' Christopher Elias has written the logical follow up analysis to our post, in which he explains in layman's terms not only how but why the lock up has occurred and will get far more acute, but also why the MF Global bankruptcy, much more than merely a one-off instance of "repo-to-maturity" of sovereign bonds gone horribly wrong is a symptom of two things: i) the lax London-based unregulated and unsupervised system which has allowed such unprecedented, leveraged monsters as AIG, Lehman and now as it turns out MF Global, to flourish until they end up imploding and threatening the world's entire financial system, and ii) an implicit construct embedded within the shadow banking model which permitted the heaping of leverage upon leverage upon leverage, probably more so than any structured finance product in the past (up to and including synthetic CDO cubeds), and certainly on par with the AIG cataclysm which saw $2.7 trillion of CDS notional sold with virtually zero margin. Simply said: when one truly digs in, MF Global exposes the 2011 equivalent of the 2008 AIG: virtually unlimited leverage via the shadow banking system, in which there are practically no hard assets backing the infinite layers of debt created above, and which when finally unwound, will create a cataclysmic collapse of all financial institutions, where every bank is daisy-chained to each other courtesy of multiple layers of "hypothecation, and re-hypothecation." In fact, it is a link so sinister it touches every corner of modern finance up to and including such supposedly "stable" institutions as Jefferies, which as it turns out has spent weeks defending itself, however against all the wrong things, and Canadian banks, which as it also turns out, defended themselves against Zero Hedge allegations they may well be the next shoes to drop, as being strong and vibrant (and in fact just announced soaring profits and bonuses), yet which have all the same if not far greater risk factors as MF Global. Yet nobody has called them out on it. Until now.

But first, a detour to London...

As readers will recall, the actual office that blew up the world the first time around, was not even based in the US. It was a small office located on the top floor of 1 Curzon Street in London's Mayfair district, run by one Joe Cassano: the head of AIG Financial Products. The reason why this office of US-based AIG was in London, is so that Cassano could sell CDS as far away from the eye of Federal regulators as possible. Which he did. In fact he sold an unprecedented $2.7 trillion worth of CDS just before the firm collapsed due to one small glitch in the system - the assumption that home prices could go down as well as up. Yet the real question is why he sold so much CDS? The answer is simple - in a world of limited real assets, the only way to generate a practically limitless cash flow annuity would be to sell synthetic insurance on a virtually infinite amount of synthetic underlying. Which he did. Only when it came time to pay the claims, AIG blew up, forcing the government to bail it out, and set off the chain of events where we find ourselves now, where every day could be the developed world's last if not for the ongoing backstops, guarantees and bailouts of the central banking regime.

What is greatly ironic is that in the aftermath of the AIG collapse, the UK was shamed into admitting that it was its own loose, lax and unregulated system that allowed such unsupervised insanity to continue for as long as it did. As the Telegraph reminds us, "Conservative Party Treasury spokesman Philip Hammond called for a public inquiry into the FSA’s oversight of AIG Financial Products in Mayfair. “We must not allow London to become a bolthole for companies looking for a place to conduct questionable activities,” he said. “This sounds like a monumental cock-up by the FSA,” said Lib Dem shadow chancellor Vince Cable. “It is deeply ironic,” he added, that Brown was in Brussels last week calling for tougher global financial regulation just as the scandal over the FSA’s role in one of the key regulatory failures at the root of the global panic emerged as an international issue." It is ironic because the trail in the MF Global collapse, where it is yet another infinitely leveragable product that once again comes to the fore, once again goes straight to that hub for "questionable activities" - London.

But before we explain why London is once again to blame for what was not only the immediate reason of the MF Global collapse, but could well precipitate the next global collapse, a quick look at rehypothecation.

As Reuters points out, it was not so much the act of creating "repos-to-maturity" that imperiled MF Global, but what is a secret gold mine for those privy to it - the process of re-hypothecation of collateral.

[h]ypothecation is when a borrower pledges collateral to secure a debt. The borrower retains ownership of the collateral but is “hypothetically” controlled by the creditor, who has a right to seize possession if the borrower defaults.

In the U.S., this legal right takes the form of a lien and in the UK generally in the form of a legal charge. A simple example of a hypothecation is a mortgage, in which a borrower legally owns the home, but the bank holds a right to take possession of the property if the borrower should default.

In investment banking, assets deposited with a broker will be hypothecated such that a broker may sell securities if an investor fails to keep up credit payments or if the securities drop in value and the investor fails to respond to a margin call (a request for more capital).

Re-hypothecation occurs when a bank or broker re-uses collateral posted by clients, such as hedge funds, to back the broker’s own trades and borrowings. The practice of re-hypothecation runs into the trillions of dollars and is perfectly legal. It is justified by brokers on the basis that it is a capital efficient way of financing their operations much to the chagrin of hedge funds.
So far so good, assuming there was regulation, and assuming if regulation failed, that the firms that blew up as a result of their greed would truly blow up, instead of being resurrected as TBTF zombies by a government in dire need of rent collection and lobby cash (because with or without regulation, if those who fail are not allowed to fail, then the whole point of capitalism is moot). But... there is always a snag.

Under the U.S. Federal Reserve Board's Regulation T and SEC Rule 15c3-3, a prime broker may re-hypothecate assets to the value of 140% of the client's liability to the prime broker. For example, assume a customer has deposited $500 in securities and has a debt deficit of $200, resulting in net equity of $300. The broker-dealer can re-hypothecate up to $280 (140 per cent. x $200) of these assets.

But in the UK, there is absolutely no statutory limit on the amount that can be re-hypothecated. In fact, brokers are free to re-hypothecate all and even more than the assets deposited by clients. Instead it is up to clients to negotiate a limit or prohibition on re-hypothecation. On the above example a UK broker could, and frequently would, re-hypothecate 100% of the pledged securities ($500).

This asymmetry of rules makes exploiting the more lax UK regime incredibly attractive to international brokerage firms such as MF Global or Lehman Brothers which can use European subsidiaries to create pools of funding for their U.S. operations, without the bother of complying with U.S. restrictions.

In fact, by 2007, re-hypothecation had grown so large that it accounted for half of the activity of the shadow banking system. Prior to Lehman Brothers collapse, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) calculated that U.S. banks were receiving $4 trillion worth of funding by re-hypothecation, much of which was sourced from the UK. With assets being re-hypothecated many times over (known as “churn”), the original collateral being used may have been as little as $1 trillion – a quarter of the financial footprint created through re-hypothecation.
So let's see: a Prime Broker taking posted collateral, then using the same collateral as an instrument for hypothecation with a net haircut, then repeating the process again, and again... Ring a bell? If you said "fractional reserve lending" - ding ding ding. In essence what re-hypothecation, and subsequent levels thereof, especially once in the shadow banking realm, allows Prime Brokers is to become de facto banks only completely unregulated and using synthetic assets as collateral. Curiously enough it was earlier today that we also penned "ECB Confirms Shadow Banking System In Europe In Tatters" in which we explained that since ECB has to expand the eligible collateral it will accept, there is no real collateral left, meaning the re-hypothecation process in Europe has experienced terminal failure. Yet the kicker is that the "safety haircut" only occurs in the US. Not in the UK. And therein lies the rub. In the UK, the epic failure of supervision has allowed banks to become de facto monsters of infinite shadow banking fractional reserve leverage - every bank's wet dream! Naturally, Prime Brokers have known all about this which explains the quiet desire to conduct re-hypothecation out of London-based offices for every US-based (and Canadian) bank. Reuters explains:

Keen to get in on the action, U.S. prime brokers have been making judicious use of European subsidiaries. Because re-hypothecation is so profitable for prime brokers, many prime brokerage agreements provide for a U.S. client’s assets to be transferred to the prime broker’s UK subsidiary to circumvent U.S. rehypothecation rules.

Under subtle brokerage contractual provisions, U.S. investors can find that their assets vanish from the U.S. and appear instead in the UK, despite contact with an ostensibly American organisation.

Potentially as simple as having MF Global UK Limited, an English subsidiary, enter into a prime brokerage agreement with a customer, a U.S. based prime broker can immediately take advantage of the UK’s unrestricted re-hypothecation rules.
While we already mentioned AIG as an example of the lax UK-based regulatory regime, it is another failed bank that is perhaps the best example of levered failure but in the specific re-hypothecation context: Lehman Brothers itself.

This is exactly what Lehman Brothers did through Lehman Brothers International (Europe) (LBIE), an English subsidiary to which most U.S. hedge fund assets were transferred. Once transferred to the UK based company, assets were re-hypothecated many times over, meaning that when the debt carousel stopped, and Lehman Brothers collapsed, many U.S. funds found that their assets had simply vanished.

A prime broker need not even require that an investor (eg hedge fund) sign all agreements with a European subsidiary to take advantage of the loophole. In fact, in Lehman’s case many funds signed a prime brokerage agreement with Lehman Brothers Inc (a U.S. company) but margin-lending agreements and securities-lending agreements with LBIE in the UK (normally conducted under a Global Master Securities Lending Agreement).

These agreements permitted Lehman to transfer client assets between various affiliates without the fund’s express consent, despite the fact that the main agreement had been under U.S. law. As a result of these peripheral agreements, all or most of its clients’ assets found their way down to LBIE.
And now we get back to the topic at hand: MF Global, why and how it did precisely what Lehman did back then, why it did this in London, and why its failure is a symptom of something far more terrifying than merely investing money in collapsing PIIGS bonds.

MF Global’s Customer Agreement for trading in cash commodities, commodity futures, security futures, options, and forward contracts, securities, foreign futures and options and currencies includes the following clause:

“7. Consent To Loan Or Pledge You hereby grant us the right, in accordance with Applicable Law, to borrow, pledge, repledge, transfer, hypothecate, rehypothecate, loan, or invest any of the Collateral, including, without limitation, utilizing the Collateral to purchase or sell securities pursuant to repurchase agreements [repos] or reverse repurchase agreements with any party, in each case without notice to you, and we shall have no obligation to retain a like amount of similar Collateral in our possession and control.”

In its quarterly report, MF Global disclosed that by June 2011 it had repledged (re-hypothecated) $70 million, including securities received under resale agreements. With these transactions taking place off-balance sheet it is difficult to pin down the exact entity which was used to re-hypothecate such large sums of money but regulatory filings and letters from MF Global’s administrators contain some clues.

According to a letter from KPMG to MF Global clients, when MF Global collapsed, its UK subsidiary MF Global UK Limited had over 10,000 accounts. MF Global disclosed in March 2011 that it had significant credit risk from its European subsidiary from “counterparties with whom we place both our own funds or securities and those of our clients”.
It gets even worse when one considers that over the years the actual quality of good collateral declined, meaning worse and worse collateral was to be pledged in these potentially infinite recursive loops of shadow banking fractional reserve lending:

Despite the fact that there may only be a quarter of the collateral in the world to back these transactions, successive U.S. governments have softened the requirements for what can back a re-hypothecation transaction.

Beginning with Clinton-era liberalisation, rules were eased that had until 2000 limited the use of re-hypothecated funds to U.S. Treasury, state and municipal obligations. These rules were slowly cut away (from 2000-2005) so that customer money could be used to enter into repurchase agreements (repos), buy foreign bonds, money market funds and other assorted securities.

Hence, when MF Global conceived of its Eurozone repo ruse, client funds were waiting to be plundered for investment in AA rated European sovereign debt, despite the fact that many of its hedge fund clients may have been betting against the performance of those very same bonds.
At this point flashing red lights should be going though the head of anyone who lived through the AIG cataclysm: in effect the rehypothecation scenario affords the same amount of leverage, and potentially even less supervision that the CDS market. Said otherwise, the counteparty risk of daisy chaining defaults is on par with that in the case of AIG.

As well as collateral risk, re-hypothecation creates significant counterparty risk and its off-balance sheet treatment contains many hidden nasties. Even without circumventing U.S. limits on re-hypothecation, the off-balance sheet treatment means that the amount of leverage (gearing) and systemic risk created in the system by re-hypothecation is staggering.

Re-hypothecation transactions are off-balance sheet and are therefore unrestricted by balance sheet controls. Whereas on balance sheet transactions necessitate only appearing as an asset/liability on one bank’s balance sheet and not another, off-balance sheet transactions can, and frequently do, appear on multiple banks’ financial statements. What this creates is chains of counterparty risk, where multiple re-hypothecation borrowers use the same collateral over and over again. Essentially, it is a chain of debt obligations that is only as strong as its weakest link.
And the kicker:

With collateral being re-hypothecated to a factor of four (according to IMF estimates), the actual capital backing banks re-hypothecation transactions may be as little as 25%. This churning of collateral means that re-hypothecation transactions have been creating enormous amounts of liquidity, much of which has no real asset backing.
It turns out the next AIG was among us all along, only because it was hidden deep in the bowels of the unmentionable shadow banking system, out of sight (by definition) meant out of mind. Only it was not: and at last check there was $15 trillion in the shadow banking system in the US alone, where the daisy chaining of counteparty risk meant that any liquidity risk flare up would mean the AIG bankruptcy would be amateur hour at the Apollo!

But where does one look for the next AIG? Who would be stupid enough to disclose the fact that they have essentially the same risk on their off-balance sheet books as AIG had on its normal books? Once again, we turn to Reuters:

The lack of balance sheet recognition of re-hypothecation was noted in Jefferies’ recent 10Q (emphasis added):

“Note 7. Collateralized Transactions
We pledge securities in connection with repurchase agreements, securities lending agreements and other secured arrangements, including clearing arrangements. The pledge of our securities is in connection with our mortgage?backed securities, corporate bond, government and agency securities and equities businesses. Counterparties generally have the right to sell or repledge the collateral.Pledged securities that can be sold or repledged by the counterparty are included within Financial instruments owned and noted as Securities pledged on our Consolidated Statements of Financial Condition. We receive securities as collateral in connection with resale agreements, securities borrowings and customer margin loans. In many instances, we are permitted by contract or custom to rehypothecate securities received as collateral. These securities maybe used to secure repurchase agreements, enter into security lending or derivative transactions or cover short positions. At August 31, 2011 and November 30, 2010, the approximate fair value of securities received as collateral by us that may be sold or repledged was approximately $25.9 billion and $22.3 billion, respectively. At August 31, 2011 and November 30, 2010, a substantial portion of the securities received by us had been sold or repledged.
We engage in securities for securities transactions in which we are the borrower of securities and provide other securities as collateral rather than cash. As no cash is provided under these types of transactions, we, as borrower, treat these as noncash transactions and do not recognize assets or liabilities on the Consolidated Statements of Financial Condition. The securities pledged as collateral under these transactions are included within the total amount of Financial instruments owned and noted as Securities pledged on our Consolidated Statements of Financial Condition.

According to Jefferies’ most recent Annual Report it had re-hypothecated $22.3 billion (in fair value) of assets in 2011 including government debt, asset backed securities, derivatives and corporate equity- that’s just $15 billion shy of Jefferies total on balance sheet assets of $37 billion.
Oh Jefferies, Jefferies, Jefferies. Barely did you manage to escape the gauntlet of accusation of untenable gross (if not net) sovereign exposure, that you will soon, potentially as early as tomorrow, have to defend your zany rehypothecation practices. One wonders: will Sean Egan downgrade you for this latest transgression as well? All the better for Leucadia though: one more million shares that Dick Handler can sell to Ian Cumming.

Yet Jefferies is just the beginning. It gets much, much worse.

With weak collateral rules and a level of leverage that would make Archimedes tremble, firms have been piling into re-hypothecation activity with startling abandon. A review of filings reveals a staggering level of activity in what may be the world’s largest ever credit bubble.

Engaging in hyper-hypothecation have been Goldman Sachs ($28.17 billion re-hypothecated in 2011), Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (re-pledged $72 billion in client assets), Royal Bank of Canada (re-pledged $53.8 billion of $126.7 billion available for re-pledging), Oppenheimer Holdings ($15.3 million), Credit Suisse (CHF 332 billion), Knight Capital Group ($1.17 billion),Interactive Brokers ($14.5 billion), Wells Fargo ($19.6 billion), JP Morgan($546.2 billion) and Morgan Stanley ($410 billion).
And people were wondering why looking through the balance sheet of Canadian banks revealed no alert signals. It is because all the exposure was off the books! Hundreds of billions of dollars worth. As ofr JPM and MS amounting to nearly a trillion in rehypothecation... well, we are confident the market will be delighted to start pricing that particular fat-tail risk as soon as tomorrow.

Yetit is Reuters' conclusion that strikes home, and is identical to what we said last night about the liquidity lock up in Europe and what it means for the shadow banking system.

The volume and level of re-hypothecation suggests a frightening alternative hypothesis for the current liquidity crisis being experienced by banks and for why regulators around the world decided to step in to prop up the markets recently.
That's precisely right: the shadow banking system, so aptly named becuase it death rattle can never be seen out in the open, is slowly dying. As noted yesterday. But lest we be accused of hyperventilating, this time we will leave a respected, non-fringe media to bring out the big adjective guns:

To date, reports have been focused on how Eurozone default concerns were provoking fear in the markets and causing liquidity to dry up....Most have been focused on how a Eurozone default would result in huge losses in Eurozone bonds being felt across the world’s banks. However, re-hypothecation suggests an even greater fear. Considering that re-hypothecation may have increased the financial footprint of Eurozone bonds by at least four fold then a Eurozone sovereign default could be apocalyptic.

U.S. banks direct holding of sovereign debt is hardly negligible. According to the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), U.S. banks hold $181 billion in the sovereign debt of Greece, Ireland, Italy, Portugal and Spain. If we factor in off-balance sheet transactions such as re-hypothecations and repos, then the picture becomes frightening.
And there you have it: in this world where distraction and diversion often times is the only name of the game, while banks were pretending to have issues with their traditional liabilities, it was really the shadow liabilities where the true terrors were accumulating. Because in what has become a veritable daisy chain of linked shadow exposure, we are now back where we started with the AIG collapse, only this time the regime is decentralized, without the need for a focal, AIG-type center. What this means is that the collapse of the weakest link in the daisy-chain sets off a house of cards that eventually will crash even the biggest entity due to exponentially soaring counterparty risk: an escalation best comparable to an avalanche - where one simple snowflake can result in a deadly tsunami of snow that wipes out everything in its path. Only this time it is not something as innocuous as snow: it is the compounded effect of trillions and trillions of insolvent banks all collapsing at the same time, and wiping out the developed world and the associated 150 years of the welfare state as we know it.

In this light, it makes far more sense why, as we suggested yesterday, the sanest central bank in Europe, the German Bundesbank, is quietly making stealthy preparations to get the hell out of Dodge, as it realizes all too well, that the snowflake has arrived: MF Global's bankruptcy has already set off a chain of events which not even all the world's central banks can halt. Which is ironic for the Buba - what it is doing is "too little too late." But at least it is taking proactive steps. For all the other central banks in the Eurozone, and soon the world, unfortunately the deer in headlights image is the only applicable one. And all because of unbridled greed, bribed and corrupt regulators sleeping at their job, and governments which encourage the TBTF modus operandi as the only fall back one, which in turn gave banks a carte blanche to take essentially unlimited risk.

We are all about to suffer the consequences of all three.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx


THE ABOVE HAS CONSEQUENCES FOR THE ENTIRE BANKING/FINANCIAL WORLD AND THUS THE RELEVANCE ON THIS BOARD. Cheers.

All the Best!

Viva
--------------------------------------------------
Zitatende

MfG.L:)
Alles nur meine pers. Meinung, kein Kauf- oder Verkaufs-Empfehlung!
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! alaadin75
alaadin75:

@SUSMANFAN

23
08.12.11 11:25

Ist doch Glasklar aus welchem Grund SUSMAN & CO. nie selbst bei den Hearings auftauchen!!!Die wissen genau was passiert ist müssen aber den Weg gehen über den Mediator..genau das ist auch Dein SCHREIBEN SUSMANFAN...und das isses!!!

Heute vielleicht doch die letzte Gelegenheit für JPM / FDIC in allerletzten Sekunde zu einem positiven Ende zu lenken oder STRAFGERICHT???

Bei Bear Stearn hab ich in Erinnerung, dass auch in letzter Sekunde um nicht beim Strafgericht weiter zu machen erst mal ein lowball offer von 2$ kam um dann ca. glaub 14tage später auf 10$ zu erhöhen!!

JPM wird bezahlen müssen....wenn der BETRUG zum Strafgericht geht, wird man da bin ich mir ganz sicher, alle bisher gemachten ÜBERNAHMEN von JPM und viel mehr noch genaustens unter die LUPE nehmen!!!

Wamu WKN 893906 News ! chris0155
chris0155:

Frage:

 
08.12.11 11:34

Betrifft:   http://www.ariva.de/forum/Wamu-WKN-893906-News-364286?page=6809#jumppos170237

 

Liegt das dem Gericht (oder dem Mediator) denn vor?

Das wären doch auf jeden Fall "prozessrelevante" Fakten!!

n.m.M.

 

 

Wamu WKN 893906 News ! klarakaro
klarakaro:

endlich zweimal 0,05!

 
08.12.11 11:34
nach dem dritten mal fange ich an zu glauben, dass wir einen glücklichen donnerstag erleben werden  :-)
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! charly503
charly503:

herrscher 2,

 
08.12.11 11:35
einfach bei ariva thema knallgas und wmi eingeben, schon bist Du auf der richtigen Spur.
lieben Gruß der charly
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! faster
faster:

@etwas vom thema ab

6
08.12.11 11:49
oder auch nicht, und, ich bin mir nicht sicher, ob dieser beitrag nicht auch in das knallgasforum passt. aber auf jeden fall etwas zum nachdenken während wir warten.

es  betrifft den anschlag auf ackermann, und die frage, wer da dahintersteht. mir fallen da ja sofort die üblichen verdächtigen ein, barclays, goldman sachs und jpm (in alphabetischer reihenfolge, nicht unbedingt in der rangfolge der verdächtigen), aber ich bin ja auch voreingenommen, grins.

und mir fällt da ein weiterer db bankboss ein, der einem mordanschlag zum opfer gefallen ist, herrhausen. und auch er hat damals mit einem schuldenerlass zu tun gehabt,  damals gings um dritte welt länder, bei ackermann gehts hauptsächlich um griechenland.

und "leidtragende" (bescheuerter ausdruck für mögliche mörder) dieser schuldenerlässe wären unter anderem die englischen und amerikanischen spekulanten (z.b. auf griechische cds) gewesen.

ob die klage der deutschen bank gegen jpm etwas mit dem anschlag zu tun hat, schliesslich würde eine weiterführung der klage eine offenlegung der kredite der wamu bedeuten, und das wäre vermutlich das ende der geschichten über die "ach so schlechten" wamu kredite, lässt sich schwer sagen. wenn man allerdings die anschläge auf herrhausen, ackermann und maquire vergleicht, dann fällt der modus operandi eher in die ecke maquire. und da gibt es ja begründete vermutungen, wer da dahintersteht, grins.

www.zerohedge.com/article/...organs-silver-manipulation-scheme

"ein silber panda oder ein silber kookaburra kann die welt verbessern, grins" crasht jpm
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Sourcewell
Sourcewell:

Moin Moin

 
08.12.11 11:54
wann geht nach GMT Zeit denn heute das Hearing los?
Bin gespannt ob man erstmals etwas faktisches vom Verlauf erfährt.
Was ich aber weniger glaube. Man wird wohl vermeiden wollen, daß vor dem Jahreswechsel noch die Spekulationen entgleisen.
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! klarakaro
klarakaro:

noch kein delay in sicht!

 
08.12.11 11:57
wie war es das letzte mal? wann wurde das delay verkündet?
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Rabbit59
Rabbit59:

Strafgericht?

 
08.12.11 11:57
Unsere Bundes-Deppen und alle aus der EU verstoßen täglich gegen geltendes Recht...die Amis ändern die Schuldengrenze ala Berlusconi...wir sitzen mittendrin...aber die Hoffnung stirbt zuletzt...
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! faster
faster:

@etwas vom thema ab 2

3
08.12.11 11:59
aus dem artikel von lander:

"Engaging in hyper-hypothecation have been Goldman Sachs ($28.17 billion re-hypothecated in 2011), ...................Wells Fargo ($19.6 billion), JP Morgan($546.2 billion) and Morgan Stanley ($410 billion). "

woher kennen wir diese namen, grins?
"ein silber panda oder ein silber kookaburra kann die welt verbessern, grins" crasht jpm
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! herrscher2
herrscher2:

Danke charly, hab`s schon....

 
08.12.11 12:01

 

Mein Problem war, dass ich hier immer über "finanzen.net" einsteige..forum-media.finanzen.net/forum/smiley/smiley-cool.gif" style="max-width:560px" />

Wamu WKN 893906 News ! LYJN
LYJN:

16.30 Uhr unsere Zeit gehts los.... ;-)

4
08.12.11 12:01
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! SUSMANFAN
SUSMANFAN:

@allaadin75

22
08.12.11 12:02
Hallo alaadin,gebe Dirzweifellsohne Recht!!Ich bin der selben Überzeugung wie Du!!                                                                                                                              Susman weiss um die Fehler,und Er weiss ,wen Er dafür zur Rechenschaft ziehen will!! Er ist zwar nur der Anwalt des EC,und macht im Prinzip das,was sein Auftraggeber von Ihm verlangt,aber alles deutet darauf hin,das Susmans Weg der "trial" sein wird!!Warum hätte Er sonst einen solchen Fall angenommen?? Wegen Stundenabrechnungen?? Nein,Ich glaube Er weiss von den Machenschaften,und bereitet sich auf ein "trial" vor.zuerst muss Er aber die "hartnäckige Mary überzeugen,die am liebsten eine "gütliche Einigung"erzielen möchte.mit oder ohne Mary wird Er es schaffen können,sei es durch "Revision,Verfahrensfehler,neue belastende Bewise,Sternurteil wo Konkursrichtern die Entscheidungsgewalt (über IT)abgesprochen wurde etc.!! Wenn Mann bedenkt,was Wir "kleinen"Aktionäre schon wissen bzw.herausgefunden haben,dann sollte und darf Mann nicht ausschliessen,das "Susmans Team" viel,viel mehr weiss,als JPM/FDIC es lieb ist!!Inwiefern diese bereit sind "ein gütliches Settlement" zu vereinbaren,werden Wir sehen.Dein (zitat):JPM wird bezahlen müssen....wenn der BETRUG zum Strafgericht geht, wird man da bin ich mir ganz sicher, alle bisher gemachten ÜBERNAHMEN von JPM und viel mehr noch genaustens unter die LUPE nehmen!!!(zitat Ende) könnte Ich mir auch gut vorstellen. Mal schauen,was die Zukunft bringt.Ich bin,und bleibe positiv überzeugt,und würde mich schwer wundern,wenn Susman "keinen Sieg" für  Uns alle herausholen würde.   Keine kaufs-oder Verkaufsaufforderung    MfG.susmanfan
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! cliffhanger
cliffhanger:

Hallo @ All,

16
08.12.11 12:32
kommt Euch das auch irgendwie bekannt vor?:
900 mio $ fordern und mit 41,5 Mio $ settlen. Wie war das noch mit den Steuern bei WMI?? Mrd fordern und dann 5,8 Mrd ausschütten. Ein Schelm wer böses dabei denkt.
FDIC hat jetzt seeehhhhr schnell gesettled, damit das ehemalöige BOD den Mund hält. Da kann man auch mal schnell auf 860 Mio $ verzichten. 860 Mio $ als Schweigegeld. Drechsp...!!! Jetzt kann die FDIC das GSA aufkünden, denn jetzt kommen keine Beweise - falls noch nicht bei Susman vorhanden - ans Tageslicht. JPM, OTS, BR und alle Anderen werden auch schön den Mund halten, damit sie nicht angreifbar sind. Danach Verhandlung ohne stichhaltige Beweise (alles "Hearsay") und die kommen durch.

@ pyramid: Hast Du die E-Mail-Adresse von Susman?? Kannst Du unserem Susman mal den Artikel zumailen???
Ich weiß nicht, ob die Alles finden, wenn die in Medi sind. Wissen sollte er das aber schon.

Gruß
Cliff
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! MeinMotto
MeinMotto:

Marry ...Bitte lass es heute zu Ende gehen

 
08.12.11 12:33
egal wie es ausgeht... hoffentlich aber positiv für die Wamulaner...

oder ein anderes Gericht...
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! Ernie0815
Ernie0815:

Email Susman

2
08.12.11 12:35
ssusman@susmangodfrey.com

:-))))
Alles nur meine Meinung! Keine Kaufempfehlung!
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! pyramid
pyramid:

cliff,

21
08.12.11 12:45
die von Folse habe ich auf jeden fall.
aber kein thema. kann ich machen. gebe ich mal meiner mittagspause einen sinn und schicke eine rundmail an das trialteam.

ich denke zwar, daß die darüber informiert sind - aber doppelt hält besser, wah.

salute
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! cliffhanger
cliffhanger:

Super und

2
08.12.11 13:01
Danke, pyramid!!
Besser ein mal zu viel, als wenn das untergeht.

Cliff
Wamu WKN 893906 News ! zion666
zion666:

OT! Da bis zum Haering noch

 
08.12.11 13:02
etwas Zeit ist, hier ein Filmvorschlag von mir:

www.cinema.de/film/...n-wir-gleich-die-ganze-bank,1296234.html

Viel Spaß und bis nachher!

LG Zion

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